Don't Drink (or Smoke or...) & Drive

"davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com" (davesaddiction) 04/26/2017 at 10:40 • Filed to: None

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“For the first time, drivers killed in crashes are more likely to be high than drunk. A new report finds that 43 percent of drivers tested in fatal crashes in 2015 had used * a legal or illegal drug — eclipsing the 37 percent who tested above the legal limit for alcohol. The data comes as part of a complicated portrait of drug use, as an opioid epidemic persists and marijuana laws are increasingly relaxed.” That’s 80% combined; 4 of every 5 fatal crashes involved drugs or alcohol.**

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One can only assume the other 20% were because of texting while driving.

Edit:

*THC stays in your body a long time, so very possible that some of these drivers were not high at the time of the accident. Drivers who tested positive for marijuana accounted for ~5000 deaths in 2015.

**Someone could have both alcohol and drugs in their system, so this combined number is probably misleading.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 10:43

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/drugged-driving-eclipses-drunken-driving-in-tests-of-motorists-killed-in-crashes/2017/04/25/38c01b4c-291a-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.870e7814f733

vondon302 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 10:48

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Well weed stays in your system for 30 days so I’m not surprised.

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 10:51

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That’s a BS report. The study says that 43% of drivers tested in fatal crashes had used a legal or illegal drug, not that they were high. Lots of drugs stay in your system long after their effects have worn off. THC stays in your system for up to thirty days after use. I couldn’t imagine someone high on heroine even making it to their car.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions has promised to reinvigorate the war on drugs, reversing an Obama administration policy that reduced prison sentences for nonviolent drug offenders.

This is all more fear mongering. These guys love wars. Well, as long as other people fight them.

Bourbon&JellyBeans > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 10:52

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I had so many little shithead friends in high school who would smoke weed and drive, acting like because there aren’t marijuana breathalyzers they were somehow exempt from being a reasonable human being.

“I drive better high.” ...No trust me, you don’t. You drive like shit sober, and you drive even worse high.

“It doesn’t affect me.” ...Then why are you smoking it? You just think that bloodshot eyes are endearing?

“The cops can’t tell like they can with alcohol.” ...Trust me, police departments have special units just for jackasses like you. I’ve seen them work firsthand. They know.

EL_ULY > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 10:53

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Texting and driving/Sleepy and driving will go up too

Tekamul > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 10:56

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I really don’t like that reporting. It’s grossly incomplete.

First, the 43% and 37% and mutually exclusive, so it doesn’t add up to 80%. Second, BAC tests and drug tests are testing very different things. A BAC test is a somewhat reliable test of alcohol impairment. Drug tests look at levels that relate to lasting markers. These tests come up positive long after effects have dissipated.

There is a lot of fear mongering in the article without proper information.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tekamul 04/26/2017 at 11:01

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Well, I did the adding of the two, so blame me for that one.

“In Colorado, marijuana-related traffic deaths increased by 48 percent after the state legalized recreational use of the drug.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/drugged-driving-eclipses-drunken-driving-in-tests-of-motorists-killed-in-crashes/2017/04/25/38c01b4c-291a-11e7-a616-d7c8a68c1a66_story.html?utm_term=.870e7814f733

Tekamul > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 11:03

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Yes, this is a very good representation of the misuse of data.

Now that MJ is legal in CO, if you use it, then die in a car accident up to 30 days later, you are now a statistic, because testing is unable to differentiate between using it an hour ago and a week ago.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti 04/26/2017 at 11:05

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Hard to argue with this stat, unless you’re saying it can completely be explained because that many more people in the state are using weed now: “In Colorado, marijuana-related traffic deaths increased by 48 percent after the state legalized recreational use of the drug.”

Justin Hughes > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 11:06

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As something becomes more common (legalization will do that), there will be more abuse as well. They’re working on a marijuana breathalyzer, and it’s badly needed. There’s definitely a need for the “I’m high right now” measurement. In states where it’s legal (including MA, where I live), a blood test showing it in your system in the past 30 days no longer means you were using it illegally. But the laws against DUI, including weed, are still on the books, as they should be.

LongbowMkII > Tekamul 04/26/2017 at 11:08

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A reliable study would be to measure the amount of traffic incidents in Taco Bell parking lots before and after legalization.  

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Tekamul 04/26/2017 at 11:12

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Okay, I’m learning new things.

Also found this: “It gets trickier when you try to factor in the chronic effect of smoking weed, Huestis says. “We found [chronic, frequent smokers’] brains had changed and reduced the density of cannabinoid receptors,” she says. They were cognitively impaired for up to 28 days after their last use, and their driving might also still be impaired for that long.”

That’s crazy - clearly they’re talking about someone who smokes A LOT.

  http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/09/466147956/why-its-so-hard-to-make-a-solid-test-for-driving-while-stoned

LongbowMkII > Bourbon&JellyBeans 04/26/2017 at 11:12

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I was a bad human and have driven under the effects of either mj or alcohol before. Spatial awareness is effected for a while even after you peak, at least for me. Parking was a bitch.

I’m still a bad human, but for entirely different reasons now.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > DipodomysDeserti 04/26/2017 at 11:15

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Found this. It definitely is an interesting problem, with seemingly no good solution...

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/09/466147956/why-its-so-hard-to-make-a-solid-test-for-driving-while-stoned

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Justin Hughes 04/26/2017 at 11:16

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Yeah, found this: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/02/09/466147956/why-its-so-hard-to-make-a-solid-test-for-driving-while-stoned

Rico > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 11:24

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she says. They were cognitively impaired for up to 28 days after their last use, and their driving might also still be impaired for that long.”

Definitely from the mouth of someone who has never smoked weed before. This is categorically impossible.

Tekamul > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 11:25

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Yes, the whole issue is very complex. CO police are concerned because they don’t have a roadside test that holds up in court, but as with many drugs, there are multiple types of effects. The same is true with alcohol. A life long drunk behind the wheel is less capable, even when stone cold sober.

What’s worse, each drug has it’s own complex picture. Opiods, Analgesics, Duragesics, etc.

Rico > LongbowMkII 04/26/2017 at 11:28

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And we love you all the same!

Bourbon&JellyBeans > LongbowMkII 04/26/2017 at 11:29

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Hey, thanks for sharing that. Not everyone would be so candid.

4kc > DipodomysDeserti 04/26/2017 at 11:37

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The article also implies that almost all the increase in drug related intoxication is due to the increase in people smoking weed;

but you can’t compare the statistics before and after legalization because how many people would actually admit to using an illegal drug prior to legalization? (even if the polls are anonymous, people lie.)

Looking at the facts included in the article it seems way more people have things other than weed and amphetamines in their system but the article clearly glosses over that and focuses on weed.

Opiates and benzos stay in your system for a long time too, and those are also at all time highs for use (and abuse).

If anything, we should be doing things about the abuse of these drugs, particularly because a very large portion of people using them are also using them “legally”.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rico 04/26/2017 at 11:38

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26823611

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rico 04/26/2017 at 11:40

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From her research, Huestis found that THC rapidly clears out of the blood in occasional users within a couple of hours. While they’re still high, a trickle of THC leaches out of their brains and other fatty tissues back into the blood until it’s all gone.

That means a lab test would only find a trace amount of THC in the blood of occasional smokers after a few hours. “You could have smoked a good amount, just waited two hours, still be pretty intoxicated and yet pass the drug test [for driving],” says Haney.

And if you eat the weed instead of smoking it, Haney says, your blood never carries that much THC. “With oral THC, it takes several hours for [blood THC] to peak, but it remains very low compared to the smoked route, even though they’re very high. It’s a hundredfold difference,” she says.

But daily users are different. Huestis says that heavy smokers build up so much THC in their body fat that it could continue leaching out for weeks after they last smoked. These chronic, frequent users will also experience a rapid loss of THC from their blood after smoking, but they will also have a constant, moderate level of blood THC even when they’re not high, Huestis says.

It gets trickier when you try to factor in the chronic effect of smoking weed, Huestis says. “We found [chronic, frequent smokers’] brains had changed and reduced the density of cannabinoid receptors,” she says. They were cognitively impaired for up to 28 days after their last use, and their driving might also still be impaired for that long. “It’s pretty scary,” she says.

LongbowMkII > Bourbon&JellyBeans 04/26/2017 at 11:43

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Eh, comes with getting older and the passage of time I guess. I’m generally pretty reticent to bring it up, it’s embarrassing mostly, but if someone wants to hate on 8-10 year old mistakes then meh. It’s no worse than having to put it on every job app.

Rico > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 11:47

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I read it and it’s why she put the word “might”, to cover her ass.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Rico 04/26/2017 at 12:09

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But no equivocation that they “were cognitively impaired for up to 28 days after their last use”. The question is, to what extent?

Tekamul made a good point: life-long drunks also have some impairment (permanent damage) that lingers even when they haven’t been drinking.

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 13:17

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That’s actually not hard to argue with at all. 

1. Having THC in your body doesn’t mean you’re high. You could have smoked a joint two weeks before getting in an accident and their stats would show you were in a “marijuana related” accident because THC showed up in your system.

2. Were cops in CO even testing for THC prior to legalization?

DipodomysDeserti > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 04/26/2017 at 13:19

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Exactly. That’s why any stats related to being high on marijuana are bogus, because there is no objective way to tell if someone is high. Other drugs are a little easier.